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Post by small green plants on Feb 5, 2006 5:40:05 GMT
The recent spate of demonstrations regarding the caricatures originally printed in a Danish newspaper seem to have the entire Muslim world up in arms. This is the picture that is causing the controversy Personally I call that free speech and I have several asian/muslim friends who denounce the protests as being an attack on free speech. I have to say this.. one of my closest friends is Zamir and I respect his beliefs, but today he said to me "these demonstrators are no more than the Islamic equivalent of the BNP"
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Post by Inter-Communal Anarchy on Feb 5, 2006 9:33:24 GMT
Right about the free speech, but there are limits. This drawing tends to treat all muslims as potential terrorist, and in that sense I understand the protests. This is also funny because I happen to know the guy who drew that and he isn't racist or anti-muslim. Personnally, it think the muslim extremist are just over-reacting to western sense of humor.
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EuroSoviets
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Post by EuroSoviets on Feb 5, 2006 12:22:23 GMT
This is a sense of humour? The person who drew this was probably himself part of a right wing newspaper and knew exactly the sort of shit this would cause. I don't believe there should be a limit to free speech - but personally, I like to take this dickhead out and beat him to death with a shovel.
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Post by Inter-Communal Anarchy on Feb 5, 2006 16:20:47 GMT
That's exactly what a right wing extremist would do. I thought people here were socialists. Respond to violence by wisdom, not violence. Dont you think? Please explain this contradiction: So you're for limitless free speech but you'd kill someone for expressing his views? Personnally, I'd also stick a shovel into a skinheads ass, but then again I'm not for absolute free speech. One's freedom stops where someone else's begins. Free speech is ok (actually more than ok: its a necessity), untill it becomes offensive and harmfull. That's the limit.
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Post by Star City on Feb 5, 2006 17:39:51 GMT
I saw all 12 cartoons last week and meh. Apart from maybe the bomb turban cartoon - pushing into anti-islamism. The 'no images of Mohammed' rule would make sense if the Islamic world wasn't at it itself - and why can't non-Muslim's caricature him? The cartoonist isn't Muslim. skender.be/supportdenmark/
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EuroSoviets
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Post by EuroSoviets on Feb 5, 2006 18:50:38 GMT
I'm not interested in the 'no images of Mohammed' idea - just as I think the old Jewish aniconism was just intolerable (I don't know if this is still a Jewish practice, my familiarity with the intricate practices of said religion ends c300 CE). I'm not interested in the fundamentalist protests. Couldn't care less what the cuckoo jihadists think.
The issue at stake is that such blatant religious animosities in any serious publication by the capitalist media is a worrying indication of the route down which we're travelling.
ICA, what I'd like to do and what I will do are different things. Wishing I could beat someone to death with a shovel is a shorthand way of laying out my revulsion at this abuse of freedom of speech.
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Post by Star City on Feb 8, 2006 1:16:07 GMT
After all, the Arabs can't boycott goods from every country. They're far too dependent on imports. Trade is a two way process. Certain countries are dependent on certain liquids.
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Dalioranium
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Post by Dalioranium on Feb 8, 2006 13:38:39 GMT
I don't think a complete censoring of that cartoon is in order now (its in the public domain so it is inevitably already available to whomever) but I do think it was not in good taste to begin with.
I do not call that free speech - there are many more tactful ways to make a case for Islam = bombs (as ridiculous as that is) than to just be an arrogant prick and rub a massive portion of the Islamic world the wrong way, extremist, moderates and lightweights included.
There is no real need to be offensive to anybody for the sake of being offensive unless you want to be immature, arrogant, and ignorant. Maybe the cartoon was not made in a malicious way but when people are presenting material for public consumption they need to be conscious of what they are producing and what effects it will have. To do otherwise is really to ignore the context within which you work and, unless its a mistake, is a telling sign as to the character of said individual.
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Dalioranium
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Post by Dalioranium on Feb 8, 2006 15:59:31 GMT
I do agree with you on that - since it was already released and has already caused such an uproar, trying to hide it now is quite like closing the barn doors after the horses have bolted. I was mostly speaking of what I feel should have been done by the creator of said cartoons and what should be considered in the future.
Like I said, there are ways for people to make ridiculous arguments and assumptions about, say, Islam without resorting to bufoonery like this cartoon. Take Fox for instance - we all love to hate them (and I think rightfully so) but I dont recall Fox drawing a cartoon of Muhammed with a bombturban. They, for whatever reason, are a bit more tactful in their ignorance but no less brain-numbingly useless.
Ok my point seems a bit curious, but I just think that even if you are going to spout odd or wrong things, you should do them with at least a modicum of respect for fundamentals of whomever; otherwise things just degenerate into a pissing contest and I think ultimately take the track of violence or aim that way.
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Post by turbacz on Feb 17, 2006 0:25:44 GMT
I am surprised that no one sees the only problem here - religion, which should be abolished.
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EuroSoviets
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Post by EuroSoviets on Feb 17, 2006 16:17:00 GMT
Everyone does; it's not quite so simple as that.
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