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Post by The Red Factions on Nov 8, 2005 15:20:58 GMT
As far as general elections are concerned, a large chunk of those out on the streets are kids from disadvantaged suburbs with no future in sight and whose families are victims of capitalism, but they have not yet come off age
Sarkozy is largely to blame for this. He should take a hint and take a hike.
As far as the riots are concerned, I would hope that they will mobilise, arm themselves and go down to central Paris. For now, since I barely arrived in France, I will go visit my cousin who lives in the suburb where this all originated to check if she's ok but also to get some more first-hand information on these events.
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Post by D.S. of Soviet Sexy Girls on Nov 8, 2005 16:13:30 GMT
Rioters would never arm themselves seriously. If only they could achieve such a thing, they'd have no time to reach Paris as, this time, Police would be free to fire on them with real bullets.
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Post by The Red Factions on Nov 8, 2005 17:11:58 GMT
I'm not saying take up machine-guns and shoot down everything that moves. But was I was hoping for was for them to organise themselves and arm themselves with a little heavier equipment to be able to sustain a prolonged raid down in the cities and headquarters of the ruling elite.
After all, they're currently destroying their own neighbourghoods ( sp ? ) but it would be more efficient to go down in the streets of the capital.
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Post by D.S. of Soviet Sexy Girls on Nov 8, 2005 17:48:39 GMT
And what is the point in raiding in the capital's streets, seriously ?
(Neighborhood)
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Grothistan
Military Diplomat
Prime Minister of the Equilism Commonwealth
Posts: 66
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Post by Grothistan on Nov 8, 2005 18:04:20 GMT
Yes, they should raid the neighborguishoods. And don't make the mistake of the Commune - Raid all the fucking banks.
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Ketoprofen
Defence Forces
Ketoprofen - The Proletariat Coalition
Posts: 1,883
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Post by Ketoprofen on Nov 9, 2005 12:22:39 GMT
Actually, the rioters are already going down in some Parisian quarters ... and the government now promised to develop a few emergency social projects, but was also quick to declare martial law.
Tricky situation that is.
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Post by D.S. of Soviet Sexy Girls on Nov 9, 2005 16:13:45 GMT
The "Emergency State" is really far from Martial law. The most notable measure is that it offers Police the opportunity to enter houses without any judicial authorisation.
It seems that thing are calming down a little, at least in Parisian suburbs.
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Post by The Red Factions on Nov 11, 2005 1:17:27 GMT
Yeah. Interestingly enough, even the "rich" neighbourhoods are getting a fair share as well. Heard that one of the most upper-market suburbs was attacked and one of the school's library put on fire...
Villepin's is using a piece of legislation that was designated for "unruly" Algerians back in the 1955. Using this very same piece of legislation on their grandchildrens sends a strong message of equal disdain as well.
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Post by Zarpiya on Nov 11, 2005 7:52:43 GMT
It is my most sincere wish that this rioting develop into a full-scale revolution. Actually, what with this region being thoroughly communist and all, I'm surprised that more of you aren't endorsing revolution as the only solution to this crisis.
Let's say the rioters stop rioting now. The government will not make social reforms, nor will they like the marginalized people of France any more than they do now. They will argue, just as Canada did during the FLQ Crisis of the 70's, that by giving in, they would be showing that violence is the means to achieve change in their democratic society.
As per the strength of this government - the fact that they haven't entirely crushed the rioting yet is evidence enough that a revolution stands a half-decent chance at successfully overthrowing the government. Also, the United States, well-known for their interference with such revolutions and, in fact, anything that goes on in other countries, is too busy at the moment with their War on Terrorism to interfere to any great extent with a revolution in France.
Regarding the riots themselves, I have heard that the rioting is taking place in their suburbs (damaging themselves, etc.) because that is where the police go to confront them. I personally feel that the rioters need to step it up and start taking aggressive moves, not against society as a whole, but against the established authority (the police, for instance) and more importantly the government itself. While they are having these riots sans actual weapons, they would be gathering weapons together and gaining experience from the riots so that, all of a sudden, they can turn it into an actual revolution against the government. The government at that point would be backed up against the wall and, if the revolutionaries were able to hit such things as power stations and demobilize the country or at least its communications, they would have an advantage over the military in the event that it was called in.
I can't wait to see what happens there. If things develop favourably (ie - with a socialist slant), I will be looking for ways to get to France and fully participate in the revolution. Vive la révolution!!!
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Post by Jako on Nov 11, 2005 11:53:54 GMT
LOL! Talk about wishful thinking. You aren't taking into account the fact that these are all immigrant suburbs and the riots have an undeniably racial dimension to them when you're making your crude Marxist class-war analyses. Please grow up.
I would also suggest it is wrong to purely blame Sarkozy for this, although his crass comments obviously have not helped calm the situation. French society has long liked to believe in the 'eqalite' of its citizens, equal treatment before the law etc, and has therefore blinded itself to the racial prejudice that can be found throughout the system. The only thing that is surprising about these riots is that they have taken so long to occur. France avoids policies of positive discrimination, or acknowledging multiculturalism. Combine this with racism (from employers, from nationalist politicians, from housing authorities, from the police) and it is no wonder that the rioters feel pissed off. France has got to question itself and embark on serious social change if it wants to avoid these sorts of events in the future. I am not sure how willing its politicians are to do this.
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Post by Star City on Nov 11, 2005 18:08:23 GMT
They're spreading? ARGH! We have only 45 minutes to run!
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Post by Revolutionary Masses on Nov 13, 2005 22:44:34 GMT
No more than a standard night in selly oak then, cept we have vampires heh!
*bolts door*
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Post by Zarpiya on Nov 14, 2005 7:00:44 GMT
You aren't taking into account the fact that these are all immigrant suburbs and the riots have an undeniably racial dimension to them when you're making your crude Marxist class-war analyses. It is exactly this "racial dimension" that allows me to apply my "crude Marxist class-war analyses" to the rioting in France. It is this "racial dimension" which has caused the immigrant population of France to be of a separate class from the rest of France, with racial discrimination and a subsequent 40% unemployment rate (compared with 10% for the rest of the country). While I admit that there is no real ideological element to the rioting at this point, I was merely stating that there is the potential for a true ideological struggle to develop from this; the possibility that a revolution could develop out of the conditions that are present in France now. France has got to question itself and embark on serious social change if it wants to avoid these sorts of events in the future. I am not sure how willing its politicians are to do this. When you say that France needs "serious social change," that is exactly what the Communist Manifesto calls for. Further, the unwillingness of Frances politicians to embark on this change only makes it more necessary for the people to bring about this change on their own through revolutionary methods. Do not discredit these "crude Marxist class-war analyses" simply because I ended with a touch of wishful thinking for the future. I did put some thought into it before posting my opinions.
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Post by Jako on Nov 14, 2005 22:03:49 GMT
No, your analysis still seems crude. For one thing, a Marxist contemplating revolution would surely want a unified working-class movement rather than the chaotic (and often mindless) violence of a distinct section of the French working-class (i.e the poor unemployed immigrant population). The racial dimension therefore wholly undermines potential for conditions of heated class conflict. As a 'Canadian Communist' you may choose to see the recent disorder in France as evidence of proletarian unrest. This is indeed wishful thinking. The French white working-class community is not especially sympathetic to the plight of the unemployed immigrant community (two different working-class communities obviously indicate a fractured working-class). In-fact it won't be surprising if all this commotion leads to increased working-class support for Jean Marie Le Pen and his neo-fascists...not exactly happy prospects for class solidarity in France I think you will agree?
The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848. I'm not sure it would be especially useful in solving the social tensions of contemporary France. Your suggestion reminds me of fundamentalist Christians who insist on implementing the word of the Bible. It's just a book - get over it! The basic principles and ideals may be timeless, but every generation must solve its own problems.
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Post by Star City on Nov 14, 2005 22:26:33 GMT
The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848. I'm not sure it would be especially useful in solving the social tensions of contemporary France. You'll find that economic classes exist now, as they did then.
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