Alternate WWI

[Star City]

Could the Entente Powers have won WWI without America?

I'm working on an alternative history project (enyo.cjb.net) and trying to keep America isolationist towards Europe - because any war they join becomes a cakewalk for their allies.

By 1918, Germany was losing ground to Britain and France, and was falling apart internally. Without America, could the war be won by the end of 1919 or would it go on longer?

[turbacz]

I've read essays from both sides of this argument but I would say that America's military impact was negligible. War might have gone on till 1919, but the outcome would have been the same.

In terms of your project, do you have the Americans contributing absolutely ZERO to the Euro war, or just not sending the doughboys over? I ask because the economic aid send to the Allies was important and allowed UK and France to keep fighting the war as their economies could have tanked.

[Grothistan]

I might be wrong about this, but in 1918, wasn't Germany making a major campaign into France, only to be stopped by the large, american expeditionary force?

Personally, I've always wondered why americans use WW2 as an example of how great they are, instead of WW1. In my opinion, WW2 would have been won without the americans, but it would have been impossible to win WW1 without them.

[Star City]

I'm keeping American personnel out of WW, but I'm unsure if they would give economic aid depending on how isolationist they are.

[Revolutionary Masses]

Do both and see how they turn out.
There is no doubt that WW2 could have been won without the US, Russia was unstopable and the UK had turned the tide in africa.
Im gonna have to read up about this ive been stuck in the cold war/post 1990's for too long!

[D.S. of Soviet Sexy Girls]

What an interesting project !

I agree with Dan, without US aid the USSR would have performed rather less well.

Concerning WWI. Without US economical aid, it's probable that the war would have ended on some kind of cease-fire, as the French wouldn't have been able to impose their revanchard will on Germany.

[Grothistan]

With the iron-fist of Stalin, I doubt anything could have made the USSR collapse (of internal causes). Maybe it would have been another year or two before they lifted the siege of Stalingrad, but the invasion was destined to be a failure. They fell for the old russian tactic of drawing the enemy far into the country, straining the supply lines. And of course the harsh russian winter.

[Grothistan]

Stalin would not have allowed either!

But I'm probably less of an expert on this than you.

[Revolutionary Masses]

It probably just accelerated the inevitable in my opnion, US aid was in the region of 11billion, although its been hard to track down any other concrete figures.

[Star City]

Did the US not give the USSR some old planes and other vehicles, or am I getting alternate history mixed-up with reality again?

[Revolutionary Masses]

Here here, a good alternate history would be: what would have happened had Russia not undergone the october revolution?

[D.S. of Soviet Sexy Girls]

USSR used Hurricanes fighters (British ones) shipped by the Americans I believe. They also definitly used Shermann Tanks.

[Star City]

revolution said:

Here here, a good alternate history would be: what would have happened had Russia not undergone the october revolution?

Actually, I haven't explained where my Alternate History project goes. The alt-WWI is a pretext to a successful German Revolution - meaning Stalin's One Country theory falls apart, thus paving the way for Trotsky . I shouldn't give away too much...

[Grothistan]

sovietsexy said:

USSR used Hurricanes fighters (British ones) shipped by the Americans I believe. They also definitly used Shermann Tanks.

Possibly, but they also used the highly effective IL2 Sturmovik planes (anti-tank planes, which were crucial against german armor), and T-40 tanks (I believe it was T-40's, but my memory probably serve me wrong. It was something starting with a T), which weren't that good, but were very plentyfull. Both russian designs.

It should also be noted that Sherman tanks were heavily inferior to the german tanks. The only way they could beat them were through superior tactics and superior numbers.

[Revolutionary Masses]

T-34.....which was actually one of the best tanks of WW2, when they were first introduced before the germans started using 88's in their tanks it was almost inpenitrable and was the first tank to widely use sloped armour.
The Russians developed equipment that was rugged and well suited to the terrain, once they had the factories behind the urals I think that the war was over for germany, it simply became a game of supply and production.

What would have been interesting is if japan has gone to war in the eastern USSR, namely that zhukov hadnt given thema pounding.